A really long delay when using upnp output

Support questions for Neutron Player only.
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harryjian
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:11 pm

A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by harryjian » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:50 pm

I'm using neutron to output music through upnp, however, it take up to 20 secs before the receiver starts to play. I've tried all the output option, including format, sample rate, and stream size type, but getting no improvement.

I'm sure it's not the receiving one's problem, because when I am using bubble upnp, it will respond quickly without any issues. While bubble does work well with upnp, the interface of neutron is way superior, which allows me to play files with cue easily.

Is there any way to shorten the delay?

Thanks, and please excuse my poor English! :cry:

blaubär
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by blaubär » Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:44 am

Does the problem still persist ? If so I suggest you contact neutronmp@gmail.com

billouparis
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:36 pm

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by billouparis » Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:38 pm

Hi,
I have the exact same symptoms. Did you find a fix for this? I changed the netwotk buffer size, unsuccessfully.
Thank you

Bill

blaubär
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by blaubär » Thu Feb 04, 2021 7:07 pm

Different players do certain things differently, as do different receivers, see this topic here :
dmitrykos wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:49 pm
The problem is that some UPnP renderers support multichannel FLACs if they are files with a known duration. Neutron is sending endless stream and thus duration is unknown and while it works fine with 2 channel configuration somehow endless FLACs are rejected by some devices if they have >2 channels. So if you can stream 2 channel FLAC but >2 does not work then the problem is in firmware of the UPnP renderer.
I suggest you contact neutronmp@gmail.com and ask him for advice how to analyze this.

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by dmitrykos » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:59 pm

The delay depends on the firmware of the receiver. Other apps are sending the URL for the offline file to the Renderer and thus it can cache any size of internal buffer quickly.

Neutron works differently - it send real-time endless stream with all DSP applied and thus if receiver decides to cache 10-20 seconds the real-time process will block for this amount of time.

Receiver must be able to receive low-latency streams.

billouparis
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:36 pm

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by billouparis » Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:44 pm

I am using always the same receivers for 5 months. It used to work better some months ago. Situation deteriorates lately. I wonder I could log traces to understand where the issue is. The delay is so annoying really.
Makes me highly dislike this application, even if I understand the defect might be else where. Again, the issue does not exist with other upnp app on the same mobile phone, with the same musicfiles. (bubble upnp)

Too bad.
Bill

blaubär
Posts: 2173
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by blaubär » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:24 am

How long is the delay ?
The other apps, those without delay - can you use DSP there ?
Did you contact the receiver's support and ask if there are ways to reduce its buffer ?

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1870
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: A really long delay when using upnp output

Post by dmitrykos » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:13 pm

The problem with delay lies in the principle of UPnP/DLNA protocol. Normally it is meant to provide URL to the renderer and then renderer opens file using this URL. In this scenario there is no real-time streaming, server can pre-cache file rapidly and start playing almost instantly.

Neutron is using UPnP/DLNA protocol to send its endless stream from its master-mixer, as if output goes to hardware. In this case no fast pre-caching is possible because data is real-time. Therefore you get a delay. Delay depends on how firmware/software of your renderer is configured/designed. It may be low-latency, it may be 1-2-3+ seconds.

The reason why Neutron does it like that and not providing URLs to the files in the media library is because real-time streaming gives you:
- true gapless playback on Neutron's side
- DSP effects: EQ, Compressor, ...
- real-time playback of some specific formats, for example DSD

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