Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Support questions for Neutron Player only.
Lolik
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:39 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by Lolik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:39 am

dmitrykos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:15 pm

To check if you really have hi-res you could either use ADB command while playback is active and line-out is attached to speakers/headphone (some devices support hi-res only for line-out):
adb shell dumpsys media.audio_flinger
After doing some research on my phone (Xiaomi Mi A1), it seems that it indeed does NOT support Hi-Res. It's processor is Snapdragon 625 which DOES have Hi-Res supports due to a Qualcomm Aqstic audio codec. BUT, for some reason, Mi A1 DOESN'T HAVE Aqstic, it's just not there.. instead audio goes out through some msm8916, and as a result, the phone only supports 16/48 (which can be confirmed by both adb command AND system logs). So, unfortunately, Mi A1 doesn't and can't support Hi-Res.

Why does Neutron show that it does? Probably because it sees the processor, which is supposed to support Hi-Res, but it doesn't (not when installed in Mi A1, looks like when creating the phone they cut some corners.. Mi A1 also doesn't support Quick Charge 3.0, aptx, and other stuff that it's supposed to)..

So, do I understand correctly, that since my phone DOESN'T supports all frequencies shown in Neutron with Hi-Res Codec (Direct PCM), I should instead use Custom Format and install 16/48 (what is shown in audioflinger and system logs)?

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by blaubär » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:01 am

Lolik wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:39 am
Why does Neutron show that it does? Probably because it sees the processor, which is supposed to support Hi-Res, but it doesn't (not when installed in Mi A1, looks like when creating the phone they cut some corners.. Mi A1 also doesn't support Quick Charge 3.0, aptx, and other stuff that it's supposed to)..

So, do I understand correctly, that since my phone DOESN'T supports all frequencies shown in Neutron with Hi-Res Codec (Direct PCM), I should instead use Custom Format and install 16/48 (what is shown in audioflinger and system logs)?
dmitrykos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:15 pm
Some devices do not reflect hi-res via audio_flinger dump, like Samsung S10 and higher and in such case you can employ really effective method which works for all devices:

1. Use Audacity (https://www.audacityteam.org) audio app
2. Create sweep tone for the range of frequencies you wish to test
3. Play sweep tone with Neutron or any other music app and Record it with PC with Audacity at for example 192 kHz frequency
4. Do spectrum with Audacity for the recording and see what frequencies are available

Lolik
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:39 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by Lolik » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:28 am

blaubär wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:01 am
dmitrykos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:15 pm
Some devices do not reflect hi-res via audio_flinger dump, like Samsung S10 and higher and in such case you can employ really effective method which works for all devices:

1. Use Audacity (https://www.audacityteam.org) audio app
2. Create sweep tone for the range of frequencies you wish to test
3. Play sweep tone with Neutron or any other music app and Record it with PC with Audacity at for example 192 kHz frequency
4. Do spectrum with Audacity for the recording and see what frequencies are available
Yes, I know, you can even trick audioflinger into believing a non Hi-Res device is Hi-Res, it's not always correct, but you can't trick system logs. And yes, I don't have a male-to-male 3.5 cable to check with audacity, but it has been done by others on the devices forum, and I see no reason not to believe them. Mi A1 doesn't support Hi-Res, despite the fact that the processor should, because Mi A1 doesn't have Qualcomm Aqstic (audio codec that allows Hi-Res). Mi A1 doesn't support anything but 16/48 and that is, unfortunately, a fact.

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by blaubär » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:35 am

Lolik wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:28 am
Mi A1 doesn't support anything but 16/48 and that is, unfortunately, a fact.
So be it.
blaubär wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:00 pm
Lolik wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:20 pm
So, if we assume that my phone indeed only allows 48khz and will resample everything to 48 (44.1->48; 192->48, etc), and I do use Neutron DSP Effects (EQ mostly), I assume a shouldn't use Follow Source Frequency, right?
If you are right and your DAC only ever accepts 16 bit 48 kHz then you should set everything to defaults and , if you use any DSP, switch dithering on. If you do much DSP then you might think about oversampling
blaubär wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:38 pm
[...]
3. If you activate Audio Hardware > Oversampling then Audio Hardware > Frequency will be ignored.

4. Audio Hardware > Oversampling sets the sampling rate to an even multiple of the input. This is a good thing on its own, better than a non-even multiple. But if the resulting sampling rate isn't supported by the device the firmware will resample again after the DSP to the best suitable rate.

5. Audio Hardware > Frequency will set the sampling rate to a value supported by the device. This is a good thing on its own. But it might force Neutron to resample to an non-even multiple, which isn't as perfect as resampling to an even multiple.

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by blaubär » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:35 am

I'll close this topic then.

Edit: reopened


blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Does neutron actually go around android system, or is the output resampled to android supported frequency?

Post by blaubär » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:18 pm

I suggest you read through USB DAC support on USB OTG enabled devices and see if you can find the information you are looking for

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