limit on sampling rate for Bluetooth

Support questions for Neutron Player only (http://neutroncode.com/apps/player).
Farshad
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:08 pm

Re: limit on sampling rate for Bluetooth

Post by Farshad » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:45 pm

I have to turn bluetooth off then switch hi res speaker on and off then turn bluetooth on so it stay with 24 bit 96khz sample rate otherwise I m left with 16bit 48 khz .
And everytime I disconnect bluetooth or close application it ends up like that . Hope it can be fixed in next update ?

blaubär
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: limit on sampling rate for Bluetooth

Post by blaubär » Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:30 am

Farshad wrote:
Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:45 pm
I have to turn bluetooth off then switch hi res speaker on and off then turn bluetooth on so it stay with 24 bit 96khz sample rate otherwise I m left with 16bit 48 khz .
And everytime I disconnect bluetooth or close application it ends up like that . Hope it can be fixed in next update ?
Yes, in 2.16.2 it had been implemented rather restrictively, the next version should give the user the option for 96 kHz with BT whatever the os says.

xenon2
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:04 pm

Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by xenon2 » Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:51 pm

Hi,

My current setup is

Sony Xperia 1 ii and FiiO BTR3k.
When I change sample rate in audio hardware overall tonality changes - that should not be the case, its like different EQ (difference should be less than subtle).

Another thing is im trying DSP profiles for correction for headphones - this changes way too much with frequency change settings.
What im doing wrong?

I have strange feeling that DSP/headphone correction is tied somehow with sampling rate.

I've disabled all stupid sony effects (like DSSE or whatever).

blaubär
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by blaubär » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:17 pm

On Neutron's side there are two places where equalization takes place, directly after the decoding ( Settings > Playback > Equalizer Presets and Settings > Playback > DSP Effect > Equalizer and the equalizer screen ) and immediately before the output ( Settings > Playback > DSP Effect > Frequency Response Correction ). These can be set with profiles ( Settings > Profiles ) which can be bound to output devices, as can be equalizer presets. So first make sure that you don't inadvertently use these bindings to change the eq settings. If that's settled and all the devices' sound corrections are safely disabled then there shouldn't be any radical changes when switching the sampling rate or depth.

blaubär
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by blaubär » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:57 pm

There is one effect that might play a role : if you use an active equalizer band that works near the nyquist frequency ( that's half the sampling rate and the absolute upper limit for data processing with that sampling rate ) then the equalizer band will change its form, see the topic Peak EQ parameters inconsistent? . Increasing the sampling rate in this special case will remove the equalizer band from the vicinity of the nyquist frequency and so change its form, thereby changing its effects on the sound, in case that should contain frequencies in this range. Example : when you play a track containing high frequencies ( hi-hat-drumming etc ) with a sampling rate of 44.1 kHz and use active eq bands above about 15 kHz ( which is near 44.1 kHz / 2 ) or so you might hear a difference if you oversample to 88.2 kHz, because the new nyquist frequency is 88.2 / 2 = 44.1 kHz and far away from the high frequencies contained in the music

Julius Decimus
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:47 pm

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by Julius Decimus » Tue Mar 16, 2021 10:07 pm

xenon2 wrote:
Tue Mar 16, 2021 2:51 pm
Hi,

My current setup is

Sony Xperia 1 ii and FiiO BTR3k.
When I change sample rate in audio hardware overall tonality changes - that should not be the case, its like different EQ (difference should be less than subtle).

Another thing is im trying DSP profiles for correction for headphones - this changes way too much with frequency change settings.
What im doing wrong?


BTR3k - you use this with the Sony through USB or Bluetooth ?

Meybe it is something with the Fiio.

https://www.fiio.com/newsinfo/380484.html - here says, through USB supports up to only 16bit 48khz.

Are you trying to go above 48khz if with USB ?

xenon2
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:04 pm

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by xenon2 » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:34 am

Thank you all for the replies.

I tried all of the above with BT connection (LDAC mode) with flat presets as well (the change was output frequency in audio hardware) - the effect of changed tonality persists.
I believe that Sony is doing smth with audio signal as they are advertising phone as "hi-res audio".

If i will find time i will try to do the freq sweeps with all presets and draw graphs.

Julius Decimus
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:47 pm

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by Julius Decimus » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:11 am

Ok, might be.

If you swtich to other codec from Android settings: https://cdn57.androidauthority.net/wp-c ... hots-2.jpg

aptX HD instead of LDAC for example, does it behave same ?

I am interested as well what can be the reason for this. Meybe its not Neutron though. I have used it with different DACs through the years, this is very strange effect that is appearing here. Possible of course.

blaubär
Posts: 3442
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Sound changes significantly depending on sample rate.

Post by blaubär » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:58 am

xenon2 wrote:
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:34 am
I believe that Sony is doing smth with audio signal as they are advertising phone as "hi-res audio".

If i will find time i will try to do the freq sweeps with all presets and draw graphs.
Yes, that could well be. LDAC cannot do High-Res-Audio properly, whatever Sony says. So what Sony does is probably some sort of sound improvement.

duya12580
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:54 am

I found a weird situation about bluetooth

Post by duya12580 » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:01 am

Today when I listen the hi-res audio on my phone using shanling mw200 bluetooth audio cable, the information under song cover shows that the song is played at 16bit and 48K hz, but the song is 24bit 96khz, and I am using LDAC with adaptive sound quality mode. The developer option on my phone shows that the audio is transfer at 96khz and 32bit, wonder what happened there. Also when I switch to HWA codec , the information below album cover will show it played at 16bit and 96khz.

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