Equal volume for all songs, how?

Support questions for Neutron Player only.
Beakman
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:08 pm

Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Beakman » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:30 pm

My question as a non- technical user: can I get a relative even playback volume with all songs during playback.
I have over 5000 song files, various codecs and bitrates, mostly high bitrate, and unfortunately there is a lot of difference in the sound volume of those songs when playing due to original recording or file conversion.
Is there a way on Neutron to get those songs to play at a near constant playback level?
Is that done through the “Normalize” function?
If I do use the normalize function, will that be tied to my current equalizer functions, and/or can I normalize with the EQ disabled and apply my EQ settings after and still retain normalized volume?
Any other Neutron settings or functions to help with this?
Thanks in advance.

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by blaubär » Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:30 pm

Yes, that's the purpose of the normalization. If you normalize an album Neutron will analyze its songs and find the maximium volume with which each song can be played without exceeding the maximum possible volume. Afaik Neutron stores this maximum-volume-for-the-track in its internal database and then sets the preamp level accordingly when you play the track. As all this depends on your eq settings which influence the volume depending on the frequency, this album then is bound to this equalizer setting. Depending on the mode you choose for the normalization ( "peak" or "replay gain" ) you then are unable/able to change the equalizer settings while playing the album.
dmitrykos wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:24 pm
1) make sure you have EQ settings as you wish,
2) go to Albums section -> long press on desired album -> press BIND EQ (it will bind current EQ settings to this album) -> you will notice new button NORMALIZE, press it -> in new window you can simply press ALL + DONE -> it is time consuming process (there is progress bar shown for each track).
3) after normalization you will notice R/G label on display with correction value in decibels.
blaubär wrote:
Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:06 pm
I did a test with my mp3-gapless-test-album : it seems that each track is preamp-corrected on its own, so that the single track gets maximum amplification . This changes the relative volumes between the tracks of the album ! And breaks the gaplessness ! So not to be used on well made classical music.
blaubär wrote:
Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:35 am
As to "peak" vs "replay gain" :
ReplayGain
ReplayGain is a proposed standard published by David Robinson in 2001 to measure and normalize the perceived loudness of audio in computer audio formats such as MP3 and Ogg Vorbis. It allows media players to normalize loudness for individual tracks or albums. This avoids the common problem of having to manually adjust volume levels between tracks when playing audio files from albums that have been mastered at different loudness levels. [...] Peak amplitude is not a reliable indicator of loudness, so consequently peak normalization does not offer reliable normalization of perceived loudness.
So it would seem that we can choose between two distinct measurements to base normalization of a track upon : the peak level (which Neutron finds out by reading and decoding the complete track and analyzing it for its maximum value) or the RG value (which maybe Neutron calculates itself or reads from the tags if the information is already available there, but as it clearly takes some time to calculate I think Neutron does the measurement from the complete track).

And that might give a reason why you can still set the EQ with RG normalization : if you use the peaks it's clear that you'll produce clipping if you further increase the EQ after normalization, but with RG that might still be possible without necessarily exceeding the 0 dB threshold.

Creomortis
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Creomortis » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 pm

I was going to post this question. So as I understand it replay gain does not affect dynamics, just volume? RG sounds better than peak. I have classical and rock music so using replay gain should raise the classic volume to the rock music, is that correct?

If my assumptions are correct then, would it be better to look at my entire music collection in foobar, calculate rg values there then import the audio to neutron?

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by blaubär » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 am

Creomortis wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 pm
So as I understand it replay gain does not affect dynamics, just volume?
The idea is, dynamics ( relation between loud and silent parts ) is not affected, just the volume ( overall signal strength ).
Creomortis wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 pm
I have classical and rock music so using replay gain should raise the classic volume to the rock music, is that correct?
No, I'd say that's probably not correct. If the RG really doesn't affect dynamics then it cannot raise the classical music's volume much, as classical music is very dynamic. If it does/did raise the volume anyway, you will/would get clipping there ( at the loudest parts ).

What it does : it makes music that has a lot of "headroom" ( which has been produced so that its loudest parts are still considerably lower than the maximum possible volume of 0 db ) louder by shrinking the headroom. Only If and insofar this is more likely to occur with classical music than with rock music this might then be called correct.
Creomortis wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:45 pm
would it be better to look at my entire music collection in foobar, calculate rg values there then import the audio to neutron?
IMHO it's not advisable to change the loudness of classical music. Even if you prevent clipping you'll change the relative loudness of the tracks, and that will surely ruin any gapless transition between tracks. Even if there are no gapless transitions then still the loudness in classical music is meant to be preserved - the silent parts are meant to be silent.

If you generally wish to lower the dynamics I suggest you try the dynamics compressor.

Creomortis
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Creomortis » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:47 pm

Thank you for the detailed response. All I want to do is be able to listen to rock and classical one after another without having to change the volume by almost 50%. Do radio/broadcast just normalise their music destroying the dynamics?

Just tried playing the same music on foobar and I don't need to change music volume at all. I guess I'm just trying to compete with road noise in my car. Which is a bit shit.

blaubär
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by blaubär » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:45 pm

Yes, I would assume they play the music in a way that most pleases their target audience. Of course, if you're in a noisy environment you either have to reduce the dynamics or you won't be able to listen to dynamic music. So changing the dynamics according to need can be a sensible thing to do. With classical music IMHO this should be done on an album basis, not per song, so Neutron's compressor might be more suited to the purpose than its normalization.

Creomortis
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Creomortis » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:14 pm

Thanks

Creomortis
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:40 pm

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Creomortis » Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm

So I checked my settings today on neutron and replay gain was actually on. Turned it off and everything sounds a lot better. Probably have some songs tagged and some not.

Suwa_Foughten_Field
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:13 pm

Re: Equal volume for all songs, how?

Post by Suwa_Foughten_Field » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:49 pm

Regarding radios, I haven't listened to them for a while, but from what I remember, some of them do reduce the volume during particularly loud moments in some songs... which should be a criminal offense due to how anti-climatic it is, but well, that's the norm.
But yeah, the normalization function is really one of, if not my absolute favorite thing in Neuron, I was tired of having to constantly change the volume of my player due to how loud (or quiet, depending on how you look at it) some songs were compared to others. And now, I can vibe to my tunes even while finishing something anti-climatic like are report on property prices in France with a coherent volume for all songs, even if the playlist includes radically different musical styles.

Seventieslord
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:03 pm

Best practices for consistent volume level when listening to diverse playlist on shuffle

Post by Seventieslord » Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:06 pm

I'm trying to enjoy a very large playlist that has a very wide range of styles and genres. I've actually done a ton of work on the files themselves to ensure that most things with drastically low volume levels are already corrected so that it keeps my volume fiddling to a minimum.

But still, I've had to move it up or down a notch or two in the car a little more often than I'd like. I probably can't expect absolute perfection when the playlist can jump from metal to classical to ragtime, but the less intervention required, the better.

I've briefly messed around with a couple of settings (compression, replay gain, gain protection) but they haven't seemed to help that much. What have you found to be the most effective setting or combination of settings to keep everything sounding equally loud?

If I right click on a folder and click "normalize track of this group", what does NMP do next? It seems to hang for a while, like it's doing something in the background. But not too long after, it stops hanging and the app works again. It couldn't have analyzed 97000 files in that time, so I don't know if this means it's still working, or it started and gave up, or is it normalizing on the fly?

In any case, I haven't noticed a huge improvement. Does neutron normalize based on the absolute peak level of a song, or does it look at the average throughout the song?

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