Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Support questions for Neutron Player only.
Lionelh2
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:12 pm

Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by Lionelh2 » Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:10 pm

Just updated and thrilled that I can upconvert to DSD256 flawlessly on my Fiio M11 Pro.

My question: i am upconverting as well as doing the PCM to DSD256 change with MQA files. Is the MQA unfolding occurring and then the result upconverted ? In other words, where does the upconvert and pcm to DSD occur in the audio chain in Neutron?

blaubär
Posts: 3312
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by blaubär » Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:46 pm

Lionelh2 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:10 pm
Is the MQA unfolding occurring and then the result upconverted ? In other words, where does the upconvert and pcm to DSD occur in the audio chain in Neutron?
Afaik: Neutron has to decode the MQA first into PCM, this PCM is processed ( equalizer, stereo effects, whatever ), this processed PCM is converted into DSD.

brimley
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:53 pm

Mqa on ifi nano black label

Post by brimley » Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:53 pm

Hi all,

I have a local mqa file (in flac) and neutron correctly identifies it as mqa and plays ok.

However, my ifi dac should show a purple light for mqa but it remains white.

I have direct usb access enabled, but is neutron doing the unfolding rather than passing it to the dac?

Confused I be...

Thanks
Steve
P.s
I don't want get into all the mqa arguments, but a purple light would make me happy. I can then have a listen...

blaubär
Posts: 3312
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Mqa on ifi nano black label

Post by blaubär » Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:35 pm

brimley wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:53 pm
I have direct usb access enabled, but is neutron doing the unfolding rather than passing it to the dac?
Afaik Neutron converts everything to PCM and delivers this to the DAC. With the one exception of DSD (if you so wish), you can convert PCM to DSD and deliver that to the DAC, or DSD can be transferred to the DAC as it is.
blaubär wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:46 pm
Lionelh2 wrote:
Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:10 pm
Is the MQA unfolding occurring and then the result upconverted ? In other words, where does the upconvert and pcm to DSD occur in the audio chain in Neutron?
Afaik: Neutron has to decode the MQA first into PCM, this PCM is processed ( equalizer, stereo effects, whatever ), this processed PCM is converted into DSD.
Feel free to contact neutronmp@gmail.com when in doubt.

brimley
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:53 pm

Re: Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by brimley » Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:42 pm

Thanks for the reply, I'm getting to the edges of my knowledge here but does that mean neutron can't just give mqa to a mqa supporting device and let it handle it?

Mqa is encoded inside a flac and then converted to pcm and then to dsd, assuming the leg bone is connected to the thigh bone... Sheesh.
:-)

blaubär
Posts: 3312
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by blaubär » Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:22 pm

brimley wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:42 pm
does that mean neutron can't just give mqa to a mqa supporting device and let it handle it?

Mqa is encoded inside a flac and then converted to pcm and then to dsd, assuming the leg bone is connected to the thigh bone...
MQA isn't a free software, and it isn't included in Neutron's specification. So probably Neutron will treat it as FLAC :
MQA-encoded content can be carried via any lossless file format such as FLAC or ALAC; hence, it can be played back on systems either with or without an MQA decoder. In the latter case, the resulting audio has easily identifiable high-frequency noise occupying 3 LSB bits, thus limiting playback on non-MQA devices effectively to 13 bit. MQA claims that nevertheless, the quality is higher than "normal" 48/16, because of the novel sampling and convolution processes.
Which means it converts the contents to PCM ( not perfectly, see above ) and processes this ( the conversion to DSD at the end is an optional one, which I generally wouldn't advise ).

What you might want to propose is for Neutron either to license MQA and poperly decode MQA and/or implement an identification and direct transfer of MQA to the DAC ( whether Neutron would have to obtain an MQA license for this I don't know ), similar to the one Neutron already has for DSD.

brimley
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:53 pm

Re: Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by brimley » Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:42 am

Ok much appreciated.
The hiby music app requires a subscription for mqa.
Think I'll just stick with flac....
Steve

marcoxyz
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:31 pm

Re: Fiio M11 Pro DSD256 Works! How is MQA Handled?

Post by marcoxyz » Sun Dec 05, 2021 7:16 am

Hi Brimley

For native DSD and for native MQA, if the DAC is supporting it, you always have to go BitPerfect. Which means no processing like EQ, Balance or Software Latency by NP. The required Setting is "Follow Source Frequency" and "Native DSD". Your iFi should go purple if you have the correct settings. This also shows you that you really playing BitPerfect (no processing by NP).
I tested it on the M15 and the MQA Symbol in the notification bar appears if it is BitPerfect. Otherwise it is not shown because the signal processing is removing the MQA information.

Best regards,
Marco

dwc2580
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:40 am

USB DAC support on USB OTG enabled devices

Post by dwc2580 » Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:50 am

Hi, I get a Zorloo Ztella, it can play MQA on my pc and Amarra on iPhone (MQA shows purple light), but only shows red light with Neutron player on iPhone, that means Neutron player can recognize the track is FLAC but not decoding as MQA files.
May I ask how to set to make it right?
Thank you for any help you can provide.

blaubär
Posts: 3312
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: USB DAC support on USB OTG enabled devices

Post by blaubär » Fri Jul 29, 2022 9:35 am

dwc2580 wrote:
Fri Jul 29, 2022 5:50 am
Hi, I get a Zorloo Ztella, it can play MQA on my pc and Amarra on iPhone (MQA shows purple light), but only shows red light with Neutron player on iPhone, that means Neutron player can recognize the track is FLAC but not decoding as MQA files.
blaubär wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:22 pm
MQA isn't a free software, and it isn't included in Neutron's specification. So probably Neutron will treat it as FLAC :
MQA-encoded content can be carried via any lossless file format such as FLAC or ALAC; hence, it can be played back on systems either with or without an MQA decoder. In the latter case, the resulting audio has easily identifiable high-frequency noise occupying 3 LSB bits, thus limiting playback on non-MQA devices effectively to 13 bit. MQA claims that nevertheless, the quality is higher than "normal" 48/16, because of the novel sampling and convolution processes.
Which means it converts the contents to PCM ( not perfectly, see above ) and processes this ( the conversion to DSD at the end is an optional one, which I generally wouldn't advise ).

What you might want to propose is for Neutron either to license MQA and poperly decode MQA and/or implement an identification and direct transfer of MQA to the DAC ( whether Neutron would have to obtain an MQA license for this I don't know ), similar to the one Neutron already has for DSD.

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