Multiple and additional eq-prests

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blaubär
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by blaubär » Sun Oct 11, 2020 5:26 pm

Okay, then let's summarize this :

Situation :
  • Neutron offers eq-presets for sound improvement ( more bass, less bass etc )
  • Neutron offers no specific eq-presets for the equalization of commonly used headphones
  • Neutron can only ever activate one eq-preset at a given time
Problem :
  • You can use the existing eq-presets for equalization, but these aren't very specific
  • You can adapt them to create the specific ones that you need, but that's a lot of work
  • The information you need already exists in the web, but hasn't been transformed into eq-presets
  • You can only either equalize or improve, or you'll have to add a lot of further presets for each equalization/improvement combination
Proposal :
  • Add presets for the equalization of the most commonly used headphones
  • Enable Neutron to activate multiple eq-presets at a time

hhasert
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by hhasert » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:54 pm

I had some time to investigate. Actually the eq presets can be downloaded from https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq ... er/results, so my first suggestion would be to allow a user to download/import a set of eq settings from that result set for the headphones in that 'database'. You can see your XM2 settings for instance at https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq ... WH-1000XM2 (just a tip). Should I create a new proposal for this first step (clarifying the work for the development team) or will this post cover it ?

blaubär
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by blaubär » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:56 am

That should do it ! Great, thanks a lot ! So we've got a comprehensive source for the developer to build some eq presets with, and in the meantime the users can look at the autoeq index to get data for their headphones

dt880-2.PNG
dt880-2.PNG (105.68 KiB) Viewed 859 times
as a starting point for their own equalizing eq presets

dt880-1.PNG
dt880-1.PNG (41.14 KiB) Viewed 859 times

hhasert
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by hhasert » Thu Oct 22, 2020 7:27 am

Ah, you even found the index ;-) Sorry I was a bit more hasty. So, for other users the process to 'neutralize' (pun intended) your headphone and make it sound sooo much better is:

1. find your headphone in the https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/results/INDEX.md

2. Select the 'readme.md' file for me (Sony 1000XM3, I selected rtings since that was my previous source, the generic index uses oratory)
I will switch to oratory1990 based on the advise from the author of the implementation, but for now this is what I have.

Code: Select all

Parametric EQs
In case of using parametric equalizer, apply preamp of -7.1dB and build filters manually with these parameters. 

Type	      Fc	  Q	    Gain
Peaking	   32 Hz	 0.26     -4.6 dB
Peaking	  135 Hz	 0.92	  -5.6 dB
Peaking	  456 Hz	 0.26	   1.7 dB
Peaking	 4164 Hz	 2.23	   4.1 dB
Peaking	15450 Hz	 0.85	   6.7 dB
Peaking	 5803 Hz	 4.6	  -3.6 dB
Peaking	 6440 Hz	 1.37	   2.9 dB
Peaking	 8048 Hz	 4.66	  -2.3 dB
Peaking	10415 Hz	 0.95	  -2.4 dB
Peaking	12177 Hz	 2.8	   3.7 dB
3. Edit eq_presets.xml (I overwrite id 33 10-band parametric)

Code: Select all

    <preset id="33" name="Sony WH 1000XM3 AutoEq " bind="0" lock="1" preamp="-7.100000">
        <band type="LOWSHELF" gain="-4.6" freq="32" Q="0.26" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-5.6" freq="135" Q="0.92" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="1.7" freq="456" Q="0.26" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="4.1" freq="4164" Q="2.23" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-3.6" freq="5803" Q="4.60" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="2.9" freq="6440" Q="1.37" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-2.3" freq="8048" Q="4.66" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-2.4" freq="10415" Q="0.95" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="3.7" freq="12177" Q="2.80" />
        <band type="HIGHSHELF" gain="6.7" freq="15450" Q="0.85" />
    </preset>
which provides the following eq :
unnamed.jpg
unnamed.jpg (3.92 KiB) Viewed 851 times
Oratory :

Code: Select all

    <preset id="33" name="Sony WH 1000XM3 AutoEq " bind="0" lock="1" preamp="-6.400000">
        <band type="LOWSHELF" gain="-5.7" freq="24" Q="0.47" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-6.5" freq="119" Q="0.64" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-2.0" freq="547" Q="3.27" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-1.6" freq="805" Q="3.89" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="5.3" freq="1515" Q="1.59" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="0.5" freq="2193" Q="0.09" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="4.7" freq="4278" Q="1.78" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="3.9" freq="6791" Q="5.89" />
        <band type="PEAKEQ" gain="-2.3" freq="6815" Q="1.44" />
        <band type="HIGHSHELF" gain="2.3" freq="16206" Q="0.72" />
The oratory will provide this:
unnamed2.jpg
unnamed2.jpg (4.1 KiB) Viewed 843 times
I will probably not hear the difference ;-)

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by dmitrykos » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:17 pm

Thank you for the interesting discussion!

I have checked the details and here are some initial thoughts:

1) Neutron could offer the import capability for the Parametric EQ settings from the file or even probably directly downloading from GitHub.

Pros - easy to use.

Cons - what if developer of AutoEQ changes the format of the file, then Neutron's import route would become broken.

2) A tool/utility could be developed in any language by community which would convert Parametric EQ settings into Neutron's format of EQ settings and would place the result into eq_presets.xml file.

Pros - Neutron does not handle any volatility in the source format and gets ready presets into eq_presets.xml.

Cons - somebody needs to develop it.

To better address headphone correction and additional equalization Neutron will need to use 2 EQ effects where one would be serving the frequency response correction only and the second one would do the work as it is now.

hhasert
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by hhasert » Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:28 pm

You could copy the data and provide the link on your own server, so you can manage any changes. The performance is not an issue, most users will consult it once. You could keep the converted settings instead, benefit is that you can batch convert and keep the results indefinately. Probably tbe existing data for headphones will remain valid forever. I think the eq is generated by tools in the package based on the measurement files, so why would it change? Secondly, when reading from github, the parameters for the eq will be the same a change of format would be a single change to the mapping. I realy do not see a problem, if you are concerned code the mapping as a user customizable definition.

The second part is having the capability to use these settings as neutralizer and then supply the standard eq patterns ( rock, pop, etc) on top of it. I observe that yhe current eq_ presets is a long list of entries that are never used, better to have a headphone neutralization and a few delta's.

Thx for the attention to my suggestion, i have generated my own eq for my Sony 1000XM3 and it is amazing how it sounds now, Neutron has a great eq and feeding it with those settings makes it amazing. The sudden clarity in the instruments, wow, so I think users wil appreciate this, I did 8-)

Writing a batch conversikn should be easy, Perhaps setting up a github with the tool and the results could be an option. The only catch is to check the delta regularly. I can have a look if ypu want whether that is feasible, setting it open source would allow users to run the tool for a specific headphone and store the results so you do not depend on a single person ?

Should be simple using VBScript with : wget https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jaakk ... r/results/" to read in the files from the index and then convert the content. Maybe a VBScript Guru builts it in an hour (I need to Google a lot to get things running :-)) I have contacted the owner of AutoEq to ask if he would be willing to write the eq settings in XML as well to results :-) That might safe us some effort.

hhasert
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by hhasert » Mon Oct 26, 2020 9:02 am

I got a response from the AutoEq developer, it is trivial for him to convert and he proposes to contact him so he can expose a zip file with the xml settings for all headphones. There is just a format discussion you need to have on the preamp value in that xml file to be complete.

Be aware that the output of AutoEq is open source and based on measurements delivered by outside parties who willingly and freely share their data. As a precaution, this feature should not be part of any specific commercial offering (like asking additional fees in neutron to enable it). In essence, although highly unlikely, the owners of the measurement data could object usage of the data towards AutoEq so the owner would be compelled to remove the conversion. On the other hand he is providing it to other solutions like wavelet that are also non-free products where only the AutoEq feature is free of charge. Secondly the manual conversion and inclusion in the eq_presets today is already a viable feature, so you would just be automating that. The AutoEq owner is ok with data sharing and he expects that there will never be any issue.

blaubär
Posts: 1908
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:48 am

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by blaubär » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:14 pm

dmitrykos wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:17 pm
To better address headphone correction and additional equalization Neutron will need to use 2 EQ effects where one would be serving the frequency response correction only and the second one would do the work as it is now.
And that would be the most important thing to implement ! This github interface would be nice to have, but if need be the users can create their own presets. It should be possible to enable a multiselect on the list of existing presets, create a temporary preset composed of the bands of the selected presets and make this the active one.

hhasert
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:41 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by hhasert » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:21 pm

I would suggest to contact 'jaakkopasanen' on redit to ask him to create the xml zip file and provide that as a list to select from, I can imagine not all users feel comfortable to mess around with a large text file. Anyway, having the zip in correct format would be a bonus even when neutron does not provide a solution to import them. Just ask yourself how many users are actually trying to use the eq to compensate for the brand experience of these headphones instead of coloring the music for a style. I beleive the normalisation is the key thing to start with, you can still color the sound a bit based on that manually.

Actually I already like the normalization without additional eq settings ;-)

Secondly, I would remove all those nonsense eq settings for 1- 30 band fixed freq etc, Just give me normalisation and for a second : none, rock, pop, classic, etc and 1 10-band parametric user configurable eq. This will provide a user friendly selection list instead of screens of jibberisch. (sorry to be a bit on the criticaster side, just felt it was time to mention it :-) )

dmitrykos
Site Admin
Posts: 1863
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Re: Multiple and additional eq-prests

Post by dmitrykos » Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:39 pm

To my view the best approach would be to implement the possibility (in Neutron) to browse the index from Github:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq ... s/INDEX.md

Index provides the reference to the latest results with the name of the headphone and the user who provided it, so both entries - Headphone Name, User Name could be listed. Once Neutron's user decides to use it he/she simply ticks the pin button of the list entry (just like in EQ Presets dialog) and Neutron will automatically access referenced entry, for example:

AutoEq/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/1Custom SA02/1Custom SA02 ParametricEQ.txt

and use it directly for a special EQ effect which will be used for just frequency response correction. So there is no need to load the developer of AutoEq with any work as I can see that ParametricEQ.txt are pretty well structured, I see no need to convert it to Neutron's XML format. With such approach the application package will not be bloated with an additional archive containing parsed data. Also, online access will make it possible to use the updated version of the preset and also newly added entries will be available right away once index is updated.

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